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BlueTooth Headset echo / delay issue problem.
This is simply what I have found after personally using different Bluetooth Cell Phone / Headset systems.
8/05 With my business I "live" on my cell phone, using it to take orders all day. A headset is a must. For the past 2-3 years, I have been using a Samsung SPH-460 with a wired Plantronics MX-150
headset. While the performance of the MX-150 is exceptional, meaning that the
sound for my customers was as good as a "land line" and it could achieve the
volume levels sufficient for me to hear in noisier environments, the wire was
always an issue. I would either snag it on things or the phone would fall from
my belt and jerk the wire from my ear. Initially, before I learned to loop the
wire around a strap on the cable to relieve the strain on my cell phone jack, I
was breaking the headphone jacks on the cell phone. I ultimately went through 5
phones, including disassembling the phones along the way and repairing the jacks
multiple times. I was also only getting about 2 weeks out of the Plantronics
MX-150 headsets. The general problem, I am convinced, is that the speaker cannot
handle the volume that the phone is capable of producing from it's internal
amplifier (I had purchased an "over the counter" warranty plan on about the 5th
or 6th one, so the every 2 week exchange didn't cost me anything but the time /
hassle factor). Plantronics packaging actually removed the Sprint 460 from it's
list of phones that the MX-150 was compatible with. I am sure they discovered
the same issue I did. I finally broke my last SPH-460 a few weeks ago. I had already been anxiously awaiting the arrival of a Blue Tooth phone from Sprint for about a year. A few months ago they came out with the LG-PM325. I looked at this phone, and felt sure that they would be coming out with a replacement, or additional BlueTooth ready phones soon (besides the handheld computer / phones such as the Trio 650). It was / is a terrible design. It's a "slider" not "Clam Shell" design that virtually every other phone uses. This has a number of drawbacks, most that I could already see and was aware of. After a few months of being without a headset on my Samsung 460 (difficult to hold the "thin" clam shells between your head / ear and shoulder while writing), I finally had to "break down" and buy the LG-PM-325. I knew I was going to hate it as I was handing the salesperson my credit card for the purchase. I was right. I knew the "slider" design would be a hassle when it came to using the phone in a case, and sure enough you have to release a snap strap on the bottom of the case every time you want to slide the phone open (I know you don't have to slide it open just to use some of the operations). I bought a "refurbished" one that had been returned from the previous consumer that complained that the buttons were too small. They are. It is very difficult, especially when the phone is in it's case with the clear plastic membrane / window over the keys, to dial the correct number. Sometimes it will take 2-4 attempts to hit the correct numbers. The worst thing is that since the buttons are exposed, they are accidentally hit all the time! I have accidentally cut off customer order conversations many times by walking too close to items around the warehouse and elsewhere, which in-turn "bumps" the buttons. When in the car, the seatbelt pushes on the buttons. Otherwise I suppose the phone works fine and does what it should, but the above issues make me despise this phone. I didn't want the LG-PM-325 so much, that I almost switched to Verizon, or another cell service, as they had much better designed phones that were BlueTooth ready. As soon as Sprint comes out with any other "clam shell" design phone, I will get rid of this one. I hope it's tomorrow!
Anyway you want to know about the delay / echo issue with the Blue Tooth headsets. With the LG-PM-325, I also purchased a
Motorola HC-820
Blue Tooth
headset. My wife did go with Verizon and purchased the Motorola 815 phone and a
Motorola HC-850
BlueTooth Headset for her business. Both headsets experience the
delay / echo problem. The problem manifests itself to the person calling in.
They hear an echo of their voice, that seems to be about 200 msec in duration.
It is very annoying to them. Almost every customer that calls comments on it and
wants to hang up and call back to get a better connection (that won't help). My
wife say's it's so annoying when she calls me that she wants me to call back
without using the headset. The only way I've found around it is to reduce the
headset volume. With my knowledge of acoustics / amplification, this leads me to
believe it might be a "feedback" problem. If it is, it's either completely mechanical in that it
is transferring the vibrations of their voice through the housing of the headset
or it's acoustic due to the close proximity of the speaker and microphone with
each other. I'm not sure though how that much delay could be prevalent in such
as short distance. I could see 20-50 msec, but unsure how it reaches almost a
quarter second. Regardless, turning the volume down a few "notches" will reduce it.
The problem with that is that unless you are in a very quiet environment, you
may not be able to hear the caller. I called the Motorola customer support
(sounded like it was likely in India, one of my "pet peeves", but that's
another issue altogether) and the person there said is was not a "known issue".
While talking with her on the phone, I did a Google search and found numerous
other people with the same problem. I find it hard to believe that it's not a
"known issue". Here are, also a couple of other issues I have found with the Motorola. It's ability to answer a second call / "toggle" between 2 is "hit-n-miss" at best. I don't know if it's a shortcoming of the headset, the quality of the original Bluetooth pairing, or operator error. I have read the manual a few times and believe I am operating it correctly, but it's still hit and miss. That in itself is a "deal breaker" as far as using it for my business. I can use the "Talk" button on the phone itself, but I am sometimes not near it. There's also a minor issue in that it has a flashing, blue LED on the side that indicates it's status. While it does look "cool", it's a very bright LED. Not a problem in a lit room or the daytime, but if you're driving with it, any passengers will likely rip it off your ear and toss it out the window. It's about as bright as an LED flashlight shining directly at them. It's also reflects off the glass / window and can almost appear as "lightening flashes" in a dark room. This is a minor issue that I could live with if it weren't for the other issues.
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8/22/05 I also just purchased a Plantronics M2500
Bluetooth headset. I tried it with my
son calling on both a cordless phone and a wired phone and my web master on a
wired phone. They both said while they didn't hear an echo / delay, it
was very distorted / choppy. If the phone was on my belt and I bent my arm, thus
blocking the line of site from the phone on my belt to the earpiece, it would
cutout. This particular unit was not useable. I have heard that a system from Jabra is out and
does not have the echo / delay problem. I have not tried it yet, but likely will.
More info to come as it becomes available.8/24/05 Just purchased the Jabra BT-250v. Trying out today. Will let you know my results. It's not as light weight as the Motorola, nor as comfortable to me. It comes with a "cradle" that must be used with the charger to charge the unit. In reading the manual, it says to first unplug the headset charging cradle from the power adaptor, before removing the headset, or it may put the unit into "Pairing" mode. Looks like the cradle is meant to snap into a belt clip so you can carry the headset around in it. Not sure I would use it that way. Just wish the headset had the charger jack built directly into it.
Ok, have been trying to answer or place calls on it for about 45 minutes now. Got it to ring into the headset once and very briefly take a call, before it died. Could not get anything but power after that. I did check the connection with the phone / headset and upon trying twice, it could not connect. I unpaired them, then re-paired the two and it could then establish a connection, but still could not place or receive calls. Went to the Jabra website to verify compatibility, and they show my LG PM-325 phone being compatible with a Jabra BT-250. I have a BT-250v. I don't know if they are similar or if the "v" is a later model, or if it is a typo on the Jabra website. If the "v" is different, concerning the "Bluetooth" aspects, I don't know if that affects compatibility with my LG phone or not. The manual says to "reset" the headset. I tried that and now have been able to receive and place calls. Both callers said there was echo, seemingly just as prevalent as with the Motorola HC-820. The sound is also distorted and digitized some for both the callers and myself. The phone is usually less than 2 feet away when I am doing these tests. If I hold the phone within a couple inches of the headset, the distortion seems to go away. To be fair, there are two wireless computer networks in the immediate vicinity. I don't know if they are having any effect on the situation or not.
The Jabra has also "lost" it's ability to connect throughout the day. It will ring in the ear piece (and vibrate like "nobodies business" (great for noisier environments), but when I answer the phone using the head set answer button, the phone earpiece and mic is working, but not the headset. I'll try it a few more times, but it will likely be going back. Glad I'm purchasing these locally, instead of from a "web" dealer. If I weren't, this would be even more nightmarish. I'm starting to think that maybe BlueTooth use on wireless headsets, is a "Half-baked" technology, that should go back into the oven for a while, till the products are ready to actually work.
For now, I am back to using the Motorola HC-820. It's not perfect, drops calls, cut's off some calls when trying to answer them and has the echo issue, but I guess will work till something else comes along:-(
12/16/05 Purchased the Plantronics "Explorer 320" Bluetooth headset. Not going to be wanting to do a lot of exploring or anything else with this unit. While I have used many of the Plantronics "wired" headsets with good results, the 320 does not fare as well. Unit has excessive (ie, too much to be of use) static / crackling in the earpiece. Couldn't really tell much about the echo issue, as the static was too strong. Interestingly my next door neighbor in my business complex bought one as well and said the same thing. The static / crackling was too strong to use. Suppose it could be something in the vicinity causing it, but unsure. Haven't noticed it on any of the others.
3/13/06 Just purchased the NEW Motorola H700
with "new echo and noise reduction
technology". Does "echo reduction technology" mean "hey, we fixed it"? It's
charging right now. I'll let you know how it works out over the next few days.
3/14/06 The NEW H700 does not seem to have the echo issue, however it has almost ZERO range. I have to hold the phone near the earpiece for it to transmit / receive. If I use the phone on my belt and happen to "block" it's line-of-sight to the H700 earpiece the reception gets choppy with lots of static, similar to the performance of the Plantronics "Explorer 320". Having to hold the phone up to the side of my head sort of defeats the purpose of the wireless headset, I suppose.
3/17/06 Going back to using the HC-820 for now as I just got a replacement from Radio Shack. This HC820 is a bit "quirky" in the way it operates from the others I've had. It doesn't beep when I make a call to tell me that I can transfer over to the earpiece. A bit annoying, but what isn't so far about these things.
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6/06 HC820, number 4 or 5 has become distorted. Problem with the speaker element. Progressively worse over a couple days. Now not usable, and closest couple of Radio Shacks are currently out of stock. Will use my wife's working Motorola HC850 Blue Tooth Headset. While I do like the way it turns on and off better than the HC-820, it doesn't fit my ear as well (personal preference).
9/10/06 The HC850 has developed an issue with 1) cutting off calls and 2) not connecting calls without having it's "connection" button pressed 2-4 times. That's a problem as well, due to the half second delay before a headset connects. Thus you press the button 3 or 4 times, thinking that it's not connecting, but maybe it does on the 3rd press and when you press the 4th time it then has registered a connect and disconnect, back to back, thus connects the call and immediately terminates it as well. It also has started randomly beeping throughout the day. I've also noticed that it beeps sometimes when I move or lightly tap on the body of the unit. Must be an intermittent short inside.
9/12/06 HC850. Completely unusable today. Will see if Radio Shack has HC820's back in stock yet.
9/12/06 Found a Radio Shack across town with a couple 820's in stock. Got a replacement. This 820's "turn-on" sequence is intermittent and not as accurate / positive as most of my previous 820's. Took forever to get it to go into it's "find" mode. Finally got it to work.
9/13/06 Took many attempts to power-up this morning, but finally did. Will answer calls, but have to press the "call" button on this one 2-3 times to get it to pick up.
10/17/06 Finally got rid of the, near worthless, LG-PM325 phone (battery is going) and replaced it with the new LG-550 "Fusic". All around, way easier to deal with phone. It does have a couple features that expand the Bluetooth earpiece capabilities. It automatically beeps in the earpiece and connects outgoing calls. The PM325 would only beep for the first few months, then that feature quit (may have been an operator error, but I don't think so). It also relays back the volume level of the earpiece in the window of the phone. I does seem to have a bit more static in the signal with the HC820 and more susceptible to the proximity of the headset and phone to one another. Minimal issue. The echo is still there, of course as that's an issue with the headset and not the phone. On a side note, the LG-Fusic is loaded with "internet / web" options & features. You, theoretically can watch streaming video and movies on it. While I have done both, the connection when using these features comes and goes, and you usually have to restart whatever it is you are trying to watch a few times. After a bit of this, it gets too frustrating to use, and the payoff is not worth it. The content of most of the Sprint programming is overall, fairly lame. Similar to the proprietary "Airline" channels you can watch on the seat back monitors when flying. A marginal way to pass the time at best. It also usually chews through the battery fairly quick to utilize many of the web features. Still a way better phone than the LG-PM325. It does of course have the obligatory "Mega-mega-mega pixel" camera. It's amazing to me, how the general public buys into the whole "mega-pixel" hype. This new "Fusic" is 1.3 megapixels. Big deal. The lens is the size of a dull pencil point. Physics pretty much dictates that if you can't get the light through the lens in the first place, the quality of the picture is going to be drastically limited and of generally poor quality. Sure camera phones are fun and "handy" sometimes, but don't buy one based on having more "mega-pixels". Better off spend the money for the extra mega-pixels on a physics text book and a book on photography. Just my 2 cents!
My current Motorola HC820 Bluetooth headset is still very difficult to turn on in the mornings after unplugging from it's charger. Takes 8 to 10 attempts usually.
10/19/06 Purchased the Motorola H500
. Seems to have
performance similar to the HC500, but does work better with the Fusic phone.
Still has the delay when volume is up to the person calling in, but it has
decent range, LOUD volume for me & charger connection is a more durable design.11/24/06 Surprisingly my Motorola H500 is still running. I don't think I have ever gotten a solid month out of a phone headset before. Still works well. A bit of a challenge to get the right turn-on sequence in the morning when taken off the charger, but still works. I'll keep you posted.
1/6/07 Unbelievably, the Motorola H500 has not failed yet. Up to now, I have been lucky to get more than 2-3 weeks on any previous model, that even worked to a usable level in the first place. I did however slam my new Fusic phone in the tail gate of my truck last week. The LCD display did not fare well. Had to "buck-up" and buy a new one. Works just as well with the Motorola H500 as the previous one, as you would expect.
6/10/07 Misplaced Motorola H500 and had to buy a new one. This one does not perform as well as my "lost" one. It also has a lot of static noise in the background for the caller.
6/13/07 Found my old Motorola H500, so returned the new one as it was not as good anyway. At the same time, a friend loaned me their Motorola HC820
as they thought it would sound better than my
current one (my old H500). They said it did sound better.6/29/07 Just like the previous HC820's I've had, this on started to distort on it's internal speaker all the sudden. Distortion to the point that it is un-intelligible. Purchased a new
H500 (6/29/07) with an exchange warranty and will rotate with my "old faithful"
H500. Folks are already remarking on how the new H500 is muffled sounding and
this one has the dreaded "echo" that callers had not experienced with my
previous Motorola H500's.8/16/07 The "Jawbone".
After waiting for month
through backorders, I finally was able to find an available Jawbone, Bluetooth
headset for sale locally. Yeah!!! My current Motorola H500 has been getting more
frequent complaints on it's sound quality from my incoming callers. I have been
anticipating what was purported to be a Bluetooth headset that "actually works".
I had an acquaintance that owned one that I placed a call to before and it
sounded great on my end, with no echo or background noise. Well, I now have mine
connected to my LG, "Fusic" phone (which I really like for lots of reasons). We did some tests with it prior to taking customer orders, and I have to wonder, "do the people who approve Bluetooth headset designs, actually try them before they send them to production"??? Have we become so "cheap Chinese product oriented" that our only issue is, "how much money we can save on something" that we don't care if a product actually works or not? I think as a whole, the average consumer has, so manufacturers are simply "following suit". They push the envelope to see what "low quality level" consumers will accept by continuing to vote with their spending dollars (or as few of their dollars as possible), but that's another rant. Sorry, I digress.
Yes, it does a good job for the other end or "incoming caller", but the sound to me is similar to the very early versions of Thomas Edisons', "Talking" machines, and I don't mean the later, much improved "Victrola's" from the late 1920's thru 1930's. Those would sound like "Race Car Grade" Hi-Fi compared to this. I dismissed that it was me, as I looked on line and saw multiple similar opinions. Well, that and the fact that I am 20+ year veteran audio retailer. It is so bad, that I am having to ask callers to repeat themselves many times. I am so disappointed. I will keep experimenting with it for a few days, but at this point it is pretty much "un-useable". Ugh!!!!
PS. As far as the distance it is able to operate from the phone, that is fine. With my LG "Fusic", it has no issue going 30-50 feet. I can walk all over my warehouse and into other rooms with no drops, just like with the Motorola HC820's and HC500's. I read a lot of reviews about folks "dogging" this one and others for fit. It isn't really fair to comment too harshly or positively on the "fit", as peoples ears can be shaped quite differently and one that feels terrible to one person, may feel like "there's nothing there" to another, so I wouldn't place a lot of stock in negative reviews about comfort, until you worn one for a while. They are all likely going to feel foreign or uncomfortable at first. I do have to say the Jawbone does come with a good assortment of "fit" accessories for different ear shapes.
8/20/07 I also tried the following two models in a Sprint Store. One was the Motorola "S9", Stereo BlueTooth headset
and the Plantronics "Discovery"
. We paired both up with my Fusic phone. The Motorola S9 did sound good to me,
but I test called 3 cell phones and they all could hear every thing in the
background to an extent that it interfered with my voice. I could actually hear
some of the background noise coming back through the speakers. Didn't seem very
"useable". The Plantronics "Discovery" did better than the Motorola S9, and was
on par with most of the older Motorola models such as the 820, but only on par,
so why bother? It was comfortable. The Motorola S9 was not comfortable at all,
as it applied a lot of pressure inward, but I would assume that could have been
adjusted. 9/1/07 Interestingly today I spoke saw a person with a Jawbone. He said he loved it in all respects and had had it since April. He did not notice any "tinny" aspects to the sound as I and many of the referrances on the web speak of. He did say that he had heard there were "knock-offs" of it out there. I don't know if there's any truth or not to that. I did not ask what phone he was using it with. He also said that his charger fits well, but I didn't press him on that issue.
The saga continues....
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